Experimental Physics and
Industrial Control System

Machine operations and machine safeguards are two different areas.

1. Safeguards are there for your own worst days.  Implement them first.
2. Machine operations execute within the limitations of any safeguards.

On 8/29/2023 11:40 AM, Joshua Einstein-Curtis via Tech-talk wrote:

Tong,

I think about this a lot when working with our ML models -- and the best I can some up with are guidelines similar to those in any safety-critical design:

- Don't let your controller even have the ability to output something that might damage anything

I am not a fan of relying on access controls as any sort of primary safeguard, as those are outside the purview of the controller itself. If a controller has a capability to damage something (PPS or MPS), then it feels like that is just a huge risk. Seeing PID loops go wrong in RF really highlights that. Now on the flip side, I love access controls for mitigating possible configuration errors -- and having something pop up if you write the wrong PV by mistake is critical. But where that is controlled and who configures that is an interesting question -- I'd rather a pva/ca proxy running on the same machine as the controller and build the access controls right into it.

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts -- this would be a great topic at a workshop.

Josh EC

On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 9:52 AM Zhang, Tong via Tech-talk <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov <mailto:tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>> wrote:

    Dear Colleguages,____

    __ __

    Machine learning applications in accelerator controls are indeed gaining popularity, and there are exciting developments in progress. However, concerns persist regarding equipment protection, particularly when dealing with black-box ML models that may make risky decisions, especially during optimization iterations.____

    __ __

    When it comes to ML model generation, utilizing archived data is a viable approach. However, during the application phase, these models may still generate audacious decisions. Even when trained with live data, the risk remains.____

    __ __

    As far as I know, leveraging Channel Access security configuration is a sound strategy to manage PV write permissions at a granular level, covering individuals, groups, and workstations. This level of control ensures that the ML code's write permissions can be finely tuned. I’m still wondering is this way totally secure?____

    __ __

    Absolutely, incorporating the machine protection system as the primary safeguard on the device side is crucial. Your valuable insights/experience on this subject are greatly appreciated.____

    __ __

    Thanks,____

    Tong____

    __ __

    --____

    Tong Zhang, Ph.D. (he/him)____

    Controls Physicist____

    Facility for Rare Isotope Beams,____

    Michigan State University____

    __ __

--
----------------------------------------------------------
Pete R. Jemian, Ph.D.                 <jemian at anl.gov>
Beam line Controls and Data Acquisition (BC, aka BCDA)
Advanced Photon Source,    Argonne National Laboratory
Argonne, IL  60439                    630 - 252 - 3189
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Replies:

Re: Safely proceeding machine learning applications Zhang, Tong via Tech-talk

Re: Safely proceeding machine learning applications Morgan Henderson via Tech-talk

References:

Safely proceeding machine learning applications Zhang, Tong via Tech-talk

Re: Safely proceeding machine learning applications Joshua Einstein-Curtis via Tech-talk

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