> That's faster than most network cards already (@ 1 Gbps) so it seems to me one would want specialized equipment / setup.
So what? I am running the display manager on the same computer as the USB-3 camera. I just use a COTS PC with a USB-3 port, no specialized equipment, and no need to go over the network at all.
With SQL data needs to flow:
- Camera -> EPICS IOC
- IOC->SQL (what software?)
- SQL->display manager
This is clearly not as efficient as today:
Camera->EPICS IOC
EPICS IOC->display manager
A quick Google search shows lots of performance problems with using SQL for images. Do you know what bandwidth you can actually get for writing and then reading images from SQL?
If I want to use SQL and avoid network overhead I need to run SQL on every machine that is running the camera, including Windows (many cameras/detectors are Windows only).
This would significantly increase the complexity of deployment.
Mark
I think Samsung has HDs
> that go at 500+ MB/s solid state, but you'd probably want everything to go
> to a RAM drive, it's as fast as RAM.
>
> It see that as an equipment issue, not a method issue.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 12:12 PM
> To: Mark Rivers <[email protected]>
> Cc: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>; Pete Jemian <[email protected]>; tech-
> [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Idea for new Display Manager
>
> That's faster than most network cards already (@ 1 Gbps) so it seems to me
> one would want specialized equipment / setup. I think Samsung has HDs
> that go at 500+ MB/s solid state, but you'd probably want everything to go
> to a RAM drive, it's as fast as RAM.
>
> It see that as an equipment issue, not a method issue.
>
>
>
> > We want to display 2 mega-pixel RGB images at 30 Hz = 180 MB/s. Is SQL
> > going to handle that efficiently?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected]
> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> >> Of [email protected]
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 11:46 AM
> >> To: Pete Jemian <[email protected]>
> >> Cc: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: Idea for new Display Manager
> >>
> >> Well anyone interested in building a display manager right now has to
> >> know
> >> about Epics and use Epics libraries - which is somewhat specialized, and
> >> also how to program - also specialized. If there was a SQL database
> >> intermediary, then they only have to know how to interact with a SQL
> >> database (part of a typical software curriculum). It segregates the
> >> data/control from how said data is displayed or interacted with.
> >>
> >> If the system used in a display manager changes, becomes outdated (like
> >> Motif), no matter - the SQL database standards are the same.
> >>
> >> As you say, "One can already use any language, any system, to control
> >> and
> >> display data..." which is true, today - though I have trouble compiling
> >> edm for Ubuntu 64. With this method though, a rather intensive effort
> >> admittedly, a display manager would be compatible with languages of
> >> tomorrow too, ones not even invented yet. As long as they are SQL
> >> database compatible, which they will be, or they won't take off as a
> >> language.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> James Richard Larsson
> >>
> >>
> >> > Now I'm confused.
> >> >
> >> > On 3/1/2018 10:46 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> All the displays managers for Epics *look* far behind what is
> >> available
> >> >> from commercial systems, say Schneider or Rockwell. Which are
> >> >> themselves
> >> >> far behind what programmers are doing today with, a modern operating
> >> >> system or video games (also control interfaces). And that's what
> >> we're
> >> >> talking about right, at least in part, how it looks, or how we
> >> display
> >> >> data? Otherwise we could just use camonitor on a terminal with
> >> caput.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think the key to having a decent display manager, one that adapts
> >> to
> >> >> new
> >> >> technologies, better/different formats (say HTML5/PHP, Qt, text a la
> >> >> Lynx,
> >> >> or some fancy Virtual Reality / VTK / QT3d initiative) is to have
> >> Epics
> >> >> easily push/pull from a database (say MySQL, PostgreSQL). Once that
> >> is
> >> >> done one could use any language, any system, to control and display
> >> data
> >> >> as long as said language or method can access a typical database.
> >> >>
> >> >> As a side benefit to using a properly setup database one would
> >> >> automatically get an archive, and the benefits of database
> >> >> synchronization/backup, and seamless data compression.
> >> >>
> >> >> (Also if someone is excited and jumping in to do this my vote is for
> >> >> submitting it the Package Management Debian/Ubuntu repository. I'm a
> >> >> control systems engineer, and want to spend my time controlling
> >> systems,
> >> >> not compiling very particular versions of modules, libraries,
> >> plugins,
> >> >> and
> >> >> endless environment variables just to begin my work.)
> >> >>
> >> >> My two cents & cheers!
> >> >>
> >> >> James Richard Larsson
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > What is the value in adding an additional intermediate component, such
> >> > as a SQL database server, to solve the inadequacies of the various
> >> > existing display managers? That's a new piece of work for this
> >> > discussion. Each IOC already provides the data servers with a common
> >> > protocol. One can already use any language, any system, to control
> >> and
> >> > display data as long as said language or method can access an EPICS
> >> IOC.
> >> >
> >> > Pete
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> > Pete R. Jemian, Ph.D. <[email protected]>
> >> > Beam line Controls and Data Acquisition (BC, aka BCDA)
> >> > Advanced Photon Source, Argonne National Laboratory
> >> > Argonne, IL 60439 630 - 252 - 3189
> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >> > Education is the one thing for which people
> >> > are willing to pay yet not receive.
> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
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