RE: Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 Radiation Monitor

["Baker, Keith \(DLSLtd, RAL, LSCI\) via Tech-talk" <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>]

Thanks, Brendan. This is definitely something worth pursuing, before going down the hardware solution route.

 

I’ve not found anywhere to restrict access in this way within the Moxa Terminal Servers I have looked at. You can restrict access to specific client IP addresses, but not specific ports (serial port or IP port numbers). I would only want to restrict access to the port connected to the FHT6020 not any other ports, so only suitable if we use a 1 port Moxa. However, that level of configuration might well be possible within a managed switch attached to the Moxa. I’ll look into this further if required.

 

The demo we have includes a 1 port Moxa 5110 in a local junction box with an RS232 link to the FHT6020. All the documentation for the FHT6020 suggests you should be able to wire the serial line as a 2 wire (+ ground) RS485 link. This would allow us to use the 16 or 32 port Moxa terminal servers which we already have in a remote network rack and simply run a long RS485 cable to the FHT6020. Does anybody else have their system wired up like this? Or perhaps an RS485 line from some other client like a VME IOC?

This has two advantages for us,

1. an easy like for like replacement for our old Radiation Monitors as far as wiring goes.
2. not having to configure the IP Address (and perhaps MAC address access rules) of each local Moxa 5110 that is installed or later replaced.

 

Yes, I’ll update people when I have learnt more and we’ve decided what to do. I’m beginning to realise each site has its own unique requirements and preference.

 

Regards,

Keith

 

 

 

 

From: Chandler, Brendan <bchandler at anl.gov>
Sent: 20 March 2025 12:37
To: Baker, Keith (DLSLtd,RAL,LSCI) <keith.baker at diamond.ac.uk>; tech-talk at aps.anl.gov; Smith, Martin <mls at anl.gov>
Subject: Re: Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 Radiation Monitor

 

One thing to keep in mind is that (I believe) you can configure a moxa to only allow one connection to a port, and lock down the mac address that can connect to it.  So if port 5555 forwards to your radiation monitor, and the IOC is connected to moxa's port 5555 with mac address abcde, no other device should be able to send data to the radiation monitor over the network.

 

I think moxa calls the mac address limiting "port lock".

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From: Baker, Keith (DLSLtd,RAL,LSCI) <keith.baker at diamond.ac.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2025 11:18
To: Chandler, Brendan <bchandler at anl.gov>; tech-talk at aps.anl.gov <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>; Smith, Martin <mls at anl.gov>
Subject: RE: Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 Radiation Monitor

 

Brendan, that’s an intriguing little RS232 filter you have created. We clearly need to have long think about security issues with safety in mind. I’d like to avoid Matthew’s option of reading the raw analogue/digital signals,

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Brendan,  that’s an intriguing little RS232 filter you have created.

We clearly need to have long think about security issues with safety in mind. I’d like to avoid Matthew’s option of reading the raw analogue/digital signals, but also avoid the need to add dedicated write blocking hardware.

I may come back to you for more details, further down the line. We have a unit for evaluation now.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Keith

 

From: Chandler, Brendan <bchandler at anl.gov>
Sent: 18 March 2025 18:24
To: tech-talk at aps.anl.gov; Baker, Keith (DLSLtd,RAL,LSCI) <keith.baker at diamond.ac.uk>; Smith, Martin <mls at anl.gov>
Subject: Re: Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 Radiation Monitor

 

Hi Keith,

 

Regarding the RS232 device between the Moxa and FHT6020, it was added due to a requirement to have a physical device that intercepts any write commands and prevents them from going to the FHT6020.  The device was a microchip board with two RS232 ports/clickboards on it, and it ran a C program that I wrote to detect valid commands and forward them out the other port.  Everything else got blocked, and it also responded to a command that IOC could send to ask how many bytes and commands it has filtered so far.

 

I removed some references to this board in the code on github that I posted, because it seemed not relevant, but if you're interested, I'm happy to discuss more.

 

Cheers,

Bren

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From: Tech-talk <tech-talk-bounces at aps.anl.gov> on behalf of Smith, Martin via Tech-talk <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2025 11:54
To: tech-talk at aps.anl.gov <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>; Baker, Keith (DLSLtd,RAL,LSCI) <keith.baker at diamond.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 Radiation Monitor

 

Hi Keith,

 

So the one that we had a vibration issue with was installed on the wall of one of our experimental stations

so not to concrete. Just bumping the wall was enough to set it off. Another issue that we have been having

with these is we are seeing random spikes to zero I think. I'm sure that John Edwards (edwardsj at anl.gov)

would be happy to discuss issues with you.

 

I will need to let Brendan comment on the RS232 "command interceptor" as I like to call it, but he did the 

development work on that and is better equipped to talk about the hardware / software.

 

We do use CAT6a cable from the Moxa to this device which allows us to have much longer runs of RS232 than

normally allowed. I think the longest run we use is around 100 feet though.

 

Regards,

Marty

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From: Tech-talk <tech-talk-bounces at aps.anl.gov> on behalf of Baker, Keith (DLSLtd, RAL, LSCI) via Tech-talk <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2025 11:15 AM
To: tech-talk at aps.anl.gov <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>
Subject: RE: Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 Radiation Monitor

 

Sorry, I was not at work yesterday, so have just caught up with all the responses and thought it best to reply to all in one message.

 

Steve – yes, I’d be happy to receive another example database and protocol file. A Phoebus screen could be useful too.

 

Matthew, Martin – I anticipate using a Moxa terminal server as well, but you’ve highlighted security issues and options I need to consider. As you say, these are essential safety devices so any remote reconfiguration should be prevented or strictly controlled.

 

Martin – some more information on the RS232 device you have between the Moxa and FHT6020 would be useful. We’d aim to use RS485 as we’d prefer a long cable run from the Moxa to the device.

Regarding the Berthold, when I last looked at this, there was no EPICS support or any information I could find about how to communicate with this unit, so didn’t explore any further.

As for vibration, I’m not expecting any such issue with our installations mostly on concrete walls. Where are yours installed that exposes them to enough vibration to cause a problem?

 

Thanks to everyone else who posted comments or other example files which I have now downloaded and busy looking through. It seems people have taken a variety of approaches depending on their needs and I’m not sure which is the best match for us yet.

 

When I’ve played with our demo unit for a while I’ll post some feedback.

 

Regards,

Keith

 

 

From: Chandler, Brendan <bchandler at anl.gov>
Sent: 17 March 2025 13:40
To: tech-talk at aps.anl.gov; Baker, Keith (DLSLtd,RAL,LSCI) <keith.baker at diamond.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 Radiation Monitor

 

You don't often get email from bchandler at anl.gov. Learn why this is important

Hi Kieth,

 

Here is the link to the github repository:

https://github.com/brendanchandler/radmon-fht6020

 

The most interesting files are probably these:

streamdevice protocol file: https://github.com/brendanchandler/radmon-fht6020/blob/main/protocol/FHT6020.proto

database file: https://github.com/brendanchandler/radmon-fht6020/blob/main/radmonApp/db/fht6020.template

medm screens: https://github.com/brendanchandler/radmon-fht6020/tree/main/radmonApp/op/adl

 

Also, for the rest of the list, I had replied to Kieth last Friday but accidentally only replied to him.  Below is my original message from last Friday.

 

 

Hello Kieth,

 

We use these monitors at APS, and I have a streamdevice based IOC that I will post to github later today (US time).  I'll follow up with a link once available.

 

Note that our EPICs support is limited to readbacks only, as we considered it a safety issue to change the device configuration remotely.

Our screens are MEDM based, but probably could be converted to CSS without much difficulty.

 

We have our radiation monitors hooked up via the RS232 port to a moxa, which acts as a bridge to the network and EPICs.

 

Implementing EPICs communication support went relatively smoothly.  Outside of epics, we had some issues with vibrations affecting the readings, so you might consider testing with vibrations similar to your deployment environment.

 

I'll send the code link later.

Brendan Chandler

 

 

Thanks,

Brendan Chandler

 

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From: Tech-talk <tech-talk-bounces at aps.anl.gov> on behalf of Baker, Keith (DLSLtd, RAL, LSCI) via Tech-talk <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2025 06:14
To: tech-talk at aps.anl.gov <tech-talk at aps.anl.gov>
Subject: Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 Radiation Monitor

 

Hello,

I have posted a few questions here in recent years asking about Radiation Monitors and had lots of helpful replies.

 

We are finally about to borrow a Thermo Fischer FHT 6020 for evaluation, so I would like to get an example EPICS IOC running.

I believe these monitors are in use or have been tested at ISIS, SLAC and Australia, perhaps elsewhere, so I was wondering who had the most up to date or complete driver they could share with me, please?

I found an asyn driver in SLACs EPICS repository and edl files. Is this my best choice to start with?

 

Does anybody use StreamDevice? (Brendan Chandler at APS mentioned this a few years ago.)

Has anybody created CSS opi files? (I could try running an eld->opi converter as a starting point.)

 

The monitor only seems to have an RS232 port, so I was wondering how different sites connect with this? Perhaps a local IOC with serial port, an RS232->RS485 adapter for more remote connections, or a local terminal server?

We don’t need to daisy chain the monitors. We’ll have dedicated wiring and IOC for each.

 

Any recommendations appreciated.

Thanks.

Keith Baker

Diamond Light Source

 

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Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom.

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail. Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd.
Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message.
Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom.

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail. Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd.
Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message.
Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom.