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<== Date ==> <== Thread ==>

Subject: Re: VxWorks 6.0 and Enterprise licensing scheme
From: Zoltan Kakucs <Zoltan.Kakucs@desy.de>
To: EPICS tech-talk <tech-talk@aps.anl.gov>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:25:44 +0200
Hello,


At DESY we also evaluate more or less the same, it's name Enterprise License Model (ELM).
ELM is an enterprise-level, annual subscription agreement.
I've just called the WR account manager and asked about this, his answer affirmed that there is no possibility
to use the Tornado environment after expiration date. Means, we need to buy yearly the whole package,
excluding the starter-kit, which is an absolute muss at the beginning of this models lifetime (according WR)
One important goal of this agreement for us is its support for multiple sites and multiple architectures without
any restriction, assumed they're approved from the beginning. According this we can support few architectures
on different sites, therefor in the past we have purchased some licenses twice.
Another interesting feature of ELM, we have the possibility to test Tornado on Windows, until now we're using
only on Solaris.


Except for some advantages, we are in the situation, where we keep our 5.3.1 environment still in action.
Until now we are using 5.5 only for 2 architectures PPC 5100 series and SBS PC's. (with EpicsR3.13.8)
The next step we attempt is R3.13.5 on 5.5.



Regards,


Zoltan

Thompson, David H. wrote:

We have something like that; it is a "VDT" license.  It is for a one
year term and has what looks like a low cost per seat.  You have to get
a minimum of 3 seats and that is the cost drawback.  It is more
expensive if you are only supporting one bsp but probably break even on
the annual maintenance if you have 3-4 architectures/BSPs.  You are not
spending the high initial dollars that WRS used to charge for a new
architecture.  It provides access to all of the architectures and BSPs
on the CD as well as the kernel source and TrueFFS.  Since we are
casting about for different platforms to support the MPS and other
systems it has been worth it for us.   The source license used to be on
the order of $100,000 so if you use that, even just a little, then you
would have your money's worth there.  I was also able to get a discount
by trading in some old seats from a license that is not being used
anymore.  I doubt if we will maintain this for very long, maybe only
three years, and then we will have to narrow down the list of boards
that we will keep on maintenance.


I think that WRS needs to hear from all of us what Andrew has to say here, if the cost of a vxWorks license and the difficulty of the license rules for using vxWorks get too onerous then this segment of their market can very well bolt to the "free" and open source r-t systems. On the other hand we need to keep in mind that WRS wants to put vxWorks into high volume items like cable modems and set top boxes and may not really care about a few seats scattered about the national labs.



-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Johnson [mailto:anj@aps.anl.gov] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:22 PM
To: EPICS tech-talk
Subject: VxWorks 6.0 and Enterprise licensing scheme


This message is intended to provide some information and flag up a
warning about the new WRS 'Enterprise' software licensing model, which has an annual fee. I just read this in a message on the vxWorks mailing list:




They seemed to pitch it as a "rent the software" model -- that is, if
you bought a license this year, the software stopped working next


year.


In situations like mine, where single projects last 30+ years, this
could be prohibitive.



I don't know of any EPICS sites that have accepted the new license yet,
but there might be some; I do know that there have been questions about
it
from several sites. Here at APS we have looked at this license model,
but I'm not particularly happy with it myself - we're not sure that it's
going to save us any money, and it may end up costing more.


Note that WRS are shipping both the GNU and Diab C/C++ compilers in the Developers Toolkit that comes with the new license, but as far as I know

there's no guarantee that they will continue to use and support GNU in future vxWorks versions. The Diab compilers will almost certainly check

that you have a valid license before they'll run, whereas the GNU ones can't (thanks to the GPL), so there is probably some business incentive for WRS to drop GNU support (I am guessing at this though, I don't have any official information on it either way).

There also appear to be additional questions about the new vxWorks 6.0
OS, which apparently has a new TCP/IP network stack. Given the problems
that we had in switching from the vxWorks 5.3.x network stack to the newer
one in Tornado 2.x there may need to be changes to get EPICS to run on this version. Neither APS nor the LANL EPICS developers currently have seen vxWorks 6.0, and APS has no plans to move to this version in the next
few years at least - we might even consider switching to RTEMS and/or Linux rather than use vxWorks 6.0.


- Andrew




--

Zoltan Kakucs
Deutsches Elektronen-Synchrotron DESY
in der Helmholtz-Gemeinschaft
Cryogenic Control Group
Notkestraße 85
D-22607 Hamburg
+49 (0) 40 8998 - 3283 Voice
+49 (0) 40 8998 - 4388 Fax
mailto: Zoltan.Kakucs@desy.de
DESY Hamburg at http://www.desy.de

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References:
RE: VxWorks 6.0 and Enterprise licensing scheme Thompson, David H.

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